Thank You for your time.
I'm not sure what your saying. I think some artist glued canvas to wood or other things, no?
Are you saying the picture and frame are not dated the same time, that the picture was put in an older frame?

The nails have never been taken out because no nails would be put in the same hole the same way and they are. No?

I used my microscope to send you a picture and all the nails fit perfect in their spot. I'm thinking the frame is the original.and no other picture was in this frame before?

Could you clarify what your saying, I'm new and not sure I'm understanding . Thank You.

Dear Jack,

Thank you for your questions, I am happy to clarify my response.

Let's begin with the canvas and then I'll more onto the frame.... It is possible that the artist glued the canvas to the backing board to create a substrate for painting. However, when this piece was made, an artist could buy "canvas board" which was professionally manufactured canvas backed on board made specifically for artists. It was more common for an artist to purchase this than make it. When this is done properly, the backing board is made of a non-acidic material as the acids in wood and cardboard can damage canvas and paint.

When I have seen "homemade" versions of canvas board, similar to yours, it has usually been done because a painting was once attached to wooden stretcher bars (the wooden frame that canvas paintings are usually mounted to) and the bars have become damaged or the canvas has become delicate and brittle. In the case of a piece with delicate canvas, sometimes an artist or collector will mounted the canvas to a backing board rather than try to re-fit it to stretcher bars. Alternatively this can be done to fit a painting into a specific size frame.

Now let's talk about the frame, you mention of the holes which the square head nails sit in; the nails and frame date to the 19th century but the painting was produced at a later date. I think that whomever remounted this painting to the board carefully inserted the nail heads back into the original holes. From experience, this is much, much easier than trying to tack new holes in a frame.

If you have any additional questions, please ask, I am at your service.

Sincerely,

Erin-Marie

Thanks for the information. In the 19th Century do you mean in the 1900 and later? Would the painting then be in the 1800th and older?
I have an frame and Print and it also has square nails and I believe the print was changed because like you say people normale used the same holes. But I can see that the same nails were not put in the same hole because the nails are not perfectly square and don't match in the holes. In my oil painting all the nail are perfect with no odd space around the nail. I find that interesting.
I also noted since last time that the brown back is a paper
that was glued over the edge of the canvas. As I scratched the edge of the paper, more canvis is exposed. The reason I thought is was wood was because the painting bowed out at the back. Does canvas board also warping?
Thank again.

Dear Jack,

I love your questions, they are really insightful and taken from a materials direction which is an approach which speaks of common sense. The square head nails can date from the early 1800s to the late 1800s when manufacturing changed.

Canvas board will warp depending upon how the piece is stored and bowing is not uncommon for older pieces.

Cheers,

Erin-Marie

Thanks for your answers
I decided to have a closer look and scraped off some paper to see what was there. Not hard as wood and scrapes off as easy as the paper, you can seen it out the back through the canvas on one side that look ruff.
If the canvas was glued because it was weak, the only weak spot is at the side at the back. With my microscope
the treads looking great other than the back side.
So the nails are in 1800s the frame is 1900s and painting is 1800s?
Thanks for your help

I did add some pictures.
Do you think it's a canvas board?
Thanks

I think it may be what is commonly referred to as "Soft Board" which is more of a paper-fiber backing with a canvas face, like canvas board it is also prone to warping, maybe more so because the backing is softer than canvas board. Does this accurately describe what you are looking at?

Sincerely,

Erin-Marie

Yes. I went out today and looked at canvas boards.
For sure that's what I have. A canvas curved around the back with a paper over it. Mine must of gotten damages before it was put in the frame, how else would one side have rubbed through to the board? My picture has the paper back that was put on off center. I don't think there is paint on the paper anymore, I'm thinking it's just old age of the paper turning brown. What do you think?
Because it looks to me that under a microscope the nails have never been taken out after they were put in, that it's possible that every thing is original in the 1800s? Thanks

Hi Jack,

I doubt the painting is as old as the frame because this style of painting is inspired by the Impressionist art movement which began in Europe in the late 19th century, the movement took a few years to "move" to and influence artists in North America. Before the 20th century most paintings in North America weren't this "loose" with their brushstrokes so stylistically I don't see this piece being painted in the 1800s.

You are quite welcome,

Erin-Marie

Ok I've learn a wee bit about art. Thanks again.

Just one more thing. lol Lets say that there is a chance that when the nails were installed, they were never ever taken out. That means the painting is locked in and would be as old as the nails and frame or older.
By the pictures of the nails I sent, one can see that they fit one with the frame and all fit like that. I have to wonder why someone over 100 year ago would worry about getting odd shape nails in the same odd holes when not one hole is the same in shape.
Could it be that this artist was ahead of the time?

I did some more scratching around the edge of the canvas board and I see that the canvas on two sides doesn't come around the back, so I see what you mean and agree that is must of been cut to fit the frame.

Sorry if I asked too many question.